Curse

ajc2123 · Jun 29, 2009, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Seriously? DUAL skills that are horrid, even for an earth ele. 15 more energy than meteor, still causes exhaustion, 1 more second of casting time, and even though its recharge is less than meteors, you never really wanna spam exhaustion spells. Unless you wanna waste your elite on Glyph of Energy, these skills are less than sub par. Churning earth and Unsteady ground are better knockdowns...

I have a couple Ideas. One thing though is I think they should be split in to separate skills. Very few duplicate skills get both used, and I know GW meant for factions people to be able to use certain skills that are non core, but that time is over.

My Idea

Dragons Stomp.
15 energy 2 casting 25 recharge
Target foe and adjacent foes take 26...100...118 Earth damage. For 0...28...35 seconds, you have +1 Earth Magic.

Earthquake.
25 energy 2 casting 20 recharge
Target foe and adjacent foes are knocked down for 3 seconds. your next 2 wards last 0...40...45% longer

Earthquake would power up some of the key skills of an earth ele while not loosing the knockdown. I think the 3 second knockdown and ward length is justified by the hefty energy.

Dragons stomp has been turned into a more damage oriented skill, removing the exhaustion and knockdown, increasing the damage just a little, and giving a +1 for a very manageable time. Might need to keep it 25 energy....but I thought 15 was reasonable. I was trying to compare it to the elite double dragon to make sure it wasn't out of line for non elite. 10 more energy, 1.5 seconds more casting time, and 5 recharge with only +1 and not +2, I believe is in line.

As for Glyph of energy, at least make it your next two spells since glyph of lesser energy does that....If your going to take an elite for energy management, then adding one more spell won't hurt.

I think these would be reasonable changes...but....you never know.

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 29, 2009, 05:02 AM // 05:02

I'm fine with AoE KD.

/not signed

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 29, 2009, 05:09 AM // 05:09

/signed

Although dragons stomp should cause knockdown, impleying the name, but idk (pardon spelling)

oh, and bt,w it's 20 more e than meteor

IronSheik · Jun 29, 2009, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Well meteor can be dodged with any IMS. Granted it got das buff and these two didn't, EQ/DS have a bigger KD area.

thetechx · Jun 29, 2009, 05:35 AM // 05:35

the only ward that would benefit from earthquake would be ward against melee. all others recharge fast enough to get them back up before the old one is down or are only down for like 2 sec. before you can put it back up.
plus, there are better ways to shorten there recharge times or lengthen their duration than a 25 energy spell.

/not signed

Gift3d · Jun 29, 2009, 05:38 AM // 05:38

they're awesome skills, don't touch them.

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 29, 2009, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Everyone that says they're good...i'd like to see you use them almost all the time.

Kendel · Jun 29, 2009, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Pff, i would've thought the logical suggestion to be Dragon Stomp is an untargetted PBAoE Knockdown in the same way Giant Stomp is, just with a smaller range obviously.

subarucar · Jun 29, 2009, 09:45 AM // 09:45

If anything, drop the exhaustion. Or lower the damage and, bring the energy to about 10/15.

HawkofStorms · Jun 29, 2009, 12:44 PM // 12:44

They are fine skills as is. It's not fair to compare it to Meteor considering a) bigger AoE, b) not dodgeable, and c) its in the Earth line, which means it has better synergy with other Earth Skills (Ash Blast) and opens up access to other better utility skills like Wards. They used to be quite popular skills in HA. They aren't to be spammed, but as with all exhaustion spells, that's the point. If exhaustion is ever a problem for you, then you are doing it wrong. Any good ele should know how to deal with exhaustion.

MithranArkanere · Jun 29, 2009, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Dragon Stomp has Nearby range. With that, you can deal a first hit to keep them theere while another ele casts some water snaring and a third casts some Heats.

It is true that exhaustion needs some work, though. It sometimes is too much, it barely affects PvE enemies, since they have those huge energy pools, and discourages bringing skills that have low recharge, and mostly only those with recharge 30 or 60 are used in PvE.
Otherwise you'll end up having to wait ages between fights.
And speed is something important in PvE. Both when something makes things too slow...
...or way too fast.

Most of the time, a skill that gives exhaustion is fine when you recover the exhausted energy before the skill recharges...

Hm... maybe exhaustion should be a little different, at least in PvE, and last as much as the original recharge of the spell. So if you recharge faster, like with assassin's promise, you don't recover exhaustion faster, but if the spell recharges normally, by the time the spell is recharged, the exhaustion from that spell is gone.
So meteor shower would give you 60 seconds of exhaustion, and a Mind Burn would give you 5 seconds of exhaustion.

Hm... or maybe change the costs of exhaustion:
Maybe relating them to the energy cost...
- 5 energy cost : 2 points of energy exhausted.
- 10 energy: 4 points
- 15 energy: 7 points.
- 25 energy: 10 points.

Or to the damage caused:
- For every 25 damage per target caused by a exhausting skill: 1 points of exhaustion.
* A single target skills causes 100 damage, you get 4 exhaustion.
* A multiple target skill deals 3 hits of 100 damage to multiple targets, you get 12 exhaustion, regardless of how many targets you hit.

ajc2123 · Jun 29, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Dragon Stomp has Nearby range. With that, you can deal a first hit to keep them theere while another ele casts some water snaring and a third casts some Heats.

It is true that exhaustion needs some work, though. It sometimes is too much, it barely affects PvE enemies, since they have those huge energy pools, and discourages bringing skills that have low recharge, and mostly only those with recharge 30 or 60 are used in PvE.
Otherwise you'll end up having to wait ages between fights.
And speed is something important in PvE. Both when something makes things too slow...
...or way too fast.

Most of the time, a skill that gives exhaustion is fine when you recover the exhausted energy before the skill recharges...

Hm... maybe exhaustion should be a little different, at least in PvE, and last as much as the original recharge of the spell. So if you recharge faster, like with assassin's promise, you don't recover exhaustion faster, but if the spell recharges normally, by the time the spell is recharged, the exhaustion from that spell is gone.
So meteor shower would give you 60 seconds of exhaustion, and a Mind Burn would give you 5 seconds of exhaustion.

Hm... or maybe change the costs of exhaustion:
Maybe relating them to the energy cost...
- 5 energy cost : 2 points of energy exhausted.
- 10 energy: 4 points
- 15 energy: 7 points.
- 25 energy: 10 points.

Or to the damage caused:
- For every 25 damage per target caused by a exhausting skill: 1 points of exhaustion.
* A single target skills causes 100 damage, you get 4 exhaustion.
* A multiple target skill deals 3 hits of 100 damage to multiple targets, you get 12 exhaustion, regardless of how many targets you hit.

I love that idea, scaling with recharge I mean for PvE. Mind shock/burn/freeze might see some play then. Maybe cap the length of exhaustion to a minimum of 10 seconds so you cant completely spam the mind skills.

Scaling with energy cost is a great idea too, also for PvE, but I think recharge would be more fun.

Owik Gall · Jun 29, 2009, 09:42 PM // 21:42

When I read this thread I looked into GWwiki to see if there was anything on the discussion tab of the skill that relates to this thread. Interestingly there was a sub heading in Dragon's Stomp that said "Suggested Skill Change," but all that was in there was a broken link. It was supposed to lead to the skill feed back page where people discussed what the changes should be on the skill. Apparently it was deleted.

Earthquake discussion tab wasn't at all more than Dragon's Stomp. It is just someone asking if this skill has a bigger range than Meteor.

Guessing from the deleted discussion for the Dragon's Stomp skill, the balancing of the skill may have already been talked about, however I don't know if that justifies its deletion. Curious...

Just thought everyone here ought to know.

Hyper.nl · Jun 30, 2009, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Remove the exhaustion and the skills are fine :-)

Arduin · Jun 30, 2009, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Earthquake performed fine in the Terratank build. It synergized well with Aftershock, because it gave a reliable knockdown.

MagmaRed · Jun 30, 2009, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Change skills that actually have a problem.

/notsigned

Catchphrase · Jun 30, 2009, 02:22 PM // 14:22

It is a non-elite, ranged, AoE KD. So it deserves exhaustion to prevent people from casting some stupidly powerful shenanigans whilst chain KDing some poor souls especially so given the buffs to AoR and Glowstone.

/notsigned

jazilla · Jul 01, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

use these with the rit spirit earthbind and you have a powerful and useful combo.

UnChosen · Jul 01, 2009, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Any thing that would improve underpowered Ele spells that does less than 40 dmg in HM PvE is good. Its not like PvE mobs actually dodge meteor and the range difference doesn't matter when they're all bunched up anyways.

/signed